Q:
I have a question about the colts. When is the decision typically made whether to geld or leave them intact, and what factors go into that decision?
Nancy Schaffer
Tucson, AZ
A:Typically we will never geld a colt before it leaves the farm, either for the sales or to be broken in, unless there is a medical issue involved. We often have a good idea that they may become geldings fairly soon into their training careers though! Some colts are definitely more “studdish” than others.
Buyers usually don’t want to purchase a yearling gelding, as this will often indicate they have a difficult temperament. On top of that, this is a dreamers game—when someone buys a colt they like to think they have a shot at owning a horse that will have a stellar racing career and go on to leave his legacy as a stud.
The other reason to geld a colt is if they are clearly not going to compete at the levels that would then lead to a career at stud. A gelding is usually easier to handle and deal with on a daily basis. I know a lot of people will say they have had difficult geldings or easy colts, and of course that can be the case but generally it’s easier to have a gelding in the shed row, especially when there are fillies in the barn.
Our Expert
Yearling Manager, Lane’s End
Cooper was born in Lexington, KY and graduated from the University of Kentucky with a degree in Agriculture. He started working with horses in 1997 in the training barn of Al Stall Jr. Before coming to Lane’s End as the Yearling Manager in 2010, he worked at Wimbledon and Mill Ridge Farm.
Andrea
It would be nice if most racetrackers whether they be trainer, owner, breeder would just geld the colts. It doesn’t matter how “nice” they may be, it makes it so much more difficult when they are the track to deal with them. You always have to be aware that they are colts and thereby keep the fillies away! You can’t put them in stalls next to fillies, you always have to have gates up as opposed to just webbings, and all of the other things you have to deal with. I help a friend each year at our yearling sale and we all comment how much nicer it would be to have geldings instead of colts to handle. 98% of the colts that go through our sale get gelded usually within a week of the sale.
But, that’s just my personal opinion from someone who has to deal with these guys when they are in town! :)
Can’t wait for Z13!
shirleeinindy
Andrea, I have no personal experience with the colts but just wonder where we would be if Storm Cat had been gelded???
msnap12
@shirleeinindy, that made me lol :D
carolinarkansas
good morning zenny
Eveline / Maryland.
Great answer! Thanks.
Barbara Guckert
I wouldn’t think yearlings should be gelded. After all, they aren’t finished maturing. I would wait until he is 2 and in training before I make that life altering decision.
♥ Pacing Auntie Judy aka JAG / So. Calif. ♥
We look forward to Prince Z’s racing career :-) Thanks for answering this question.
♥ Love you Prince Z and Big Momma Zenny! XO
Auntie Judy Pacing in California for the arrival of Z13
♥ Pacing Auntie Judy aka JAG / So. Calif. ♥
p.s. Prince Z you are still adorable as ever, Sweetie! ♥
Zfansandy
Checking in on my sugar plum mommy. Waiting waiting waiting on that bebe. Love to you Z and thx to the good expert info on geldings. Dunno what I’d do without this site. Thx so much to all involved. More pics plz Alys. They make my day. Blessings.
Barbara Guckert
I also have a question about sterilizing mares. Do people do this if a mare isn’t right for breeding or they want to continue to race them as they get older and don’t want to deal with them coming into heat every year? or, is there a procedure they go through to keep them out of heat but, still able to have foals when they stop racing?
I didn’t see the specific ask the experts forum question spot(?). Since, this is in the same vein as the original question, I thought I’d ask here.
K
OHE’s in mares are a very different procedure than a ‘simple’ gelding. ‘Spaying’ a horse requires full anesthesia (as always the huge risk of them breaking their legs as they come out of it). That;s about all I can tell you. Basically it’s a much more in depth procedure, and it’s extremely rare to find a sterilized mare. There are hormonal supplement drugs to keep mares out of heat.
zenyen
Basically to support what K said, abdominal surgery for a spay on a horse is incredibly risky and not worth it quite honestly. There is no gain in terms of racing ability or focus with a mare, not like the adjustment that can happen from entire to gelding.
casey
An OVH in a mare is major surgery. As other posters stated, she is placed under general anesthesia, put in dorsal recumbency, midline incision and the uterus and ovaries removed, then sutured back up. Like ALL abdominal surgeries, there is a significant downtime (usually 60-90 days before they can be lightly ridden), so this is not something that would be done in a racing mare. There are Depo-Provera shots and implants that can and are used in show horses to prevent marish behavior. Usually, the only time any type of removal of a reproductive organ in a mare is if there are significant medical issues. For example, the clinic where I work had a mare with a cystic ovary. We ended up removing it laparoscopically (severe financial constraints for the owner). This mare was meaner than a mean stallion and would snake her head out to bite, strike, or try to take your head off with her kicks. I saw her 2 weeks after the removal and she was much more loving (she STILL didn’t like the vets, but she loved me) and apparently has gone on to live a wonderful life with an owner who plans to show her.
Sue FLCPRC
Prince is still flashing those big beautiful ears. What a great photo of young ZJR.
Thanks Team Z and LE
Shari Voltz / Ohio
Hi Zenyatta. Love you and the Prince. XXXOOO
Celeste
Thank you for that info. I have wondered why some racehorses are gelded.
I also am checking in regularly for any news about 13Z’s arrival and also 12Z’s name!!!! WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO NAME HIM??????????? I cannot wait any longer… I am so curious!!!
zenyen
Celeste,
You may have to wait at least another year. The Mosses do not generally name their horses until they are in training at 2. They like to have an idea of the horse’s personality to give him or her a name that suits the individual.
Celeste
zenyen,
Thank you so much for the info. I was not aware of that, but I certainly understand. It definitely makes a lot of sense. I appreciate you letting me know. Now I won’t wait so impatiently!!!
Ann NC (PUR)
Good to hear from you,Zenyen. I always enjoy your wealth of information.
Thank you,Zenyen.
Max
This is an example of a gelding who has not lost his feisty nature, champion Irish jumper, Hurricane Fly. It is not a good idea to turn your back(side) to the Hurricane. He kicks too.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/horse-racing/hurricane-fly-takes-bite-out-1760060
Diana Stuart - Pacing Pacing
And of course saying the legendary John Henry was “a handful” would have been a huge understatement! (And yet, Auntie Judy JAG fed him peppermints with no problem!) (The guy had good taste, clearly.)
Horses each have unique personalities. Colts, gelded or not, are like teenage boys. Trouble making is in their contract. :-) There are many many stallions who are as sweet and even as lambs. It really is an individual thing and maturity makes a big difference.
diastu in tempe
Ann NC (PUR)
Thanks for sharing this,Max. I am glad,Willie took it so well,ouch!!!! Hate to say it,I’ve been the recipient of a backside ” love nip “. OUCH!!!
Fly,Hurricane Fly. You are full of yourself,aren’t you,and a handsome fellow.
Max
Ann NC. This could be in his genes. Hurricane is by Montjeu. His great grand sire Northern Dancer used to do the same thing to Horatio Luro.
Hurricane is a big contrast in personality to his stablemate, Quevega, who has a very nice temperament like Z. It is pretty evident that Hurricane can get away with just about anything. Mullins loves him.
judy berube from Rhode Island
Dear Max:
Thanks for this wonderful article and video on feisty Hurricane Fly. His trainer really loves him. Hugs, JB
Max
JudyB. Willy Mullins is one of the great trainers. He had a special stream constructed on his farm for the horses so that they could walk through the water and it would wash their feet after their training sessions. He said that the rainwater was easier on their hooves than the hard water in the taps. The horses really like walking through it. It calms them. As to Hurricane, he said that he has to check his fingers before he leaves Hurricane’s stall to see that they are still there. Hurricane’s favorite things are “fighting and biting”. Gelding had no real effect on him because his aggression is part of his personality. He’s a marvellous hurdler. Handsome too.
Max
JudyB, Ann NC and Diana. Here is the video of Hurricane Fly racing just after he bit his trainer, Willy Mullins. He’s a small horse as was his great grand sire, Northern Dancer, and he’s definitely feisty just like him. This horse has amazing will and stamina. The jockey, Ruby Walsh, was also Kauto Star’s jockey.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlqZJkwWNHs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Ann NC (PUR)
Thank you Max. That was a beautiful race. HF is very talented. Very interesting info about Willie Mullins. He sounds like a terrific person.Great spirit.
Wonder if HF takes after ND by being kind to the Mrs. and kids?
Now I want a HF knit scarf!!!
Max
Ann NC. This is a very good question. His groom is a young woman and he seems to be okay with her. She even uses her days off to go and watch him race. These biters really can inspire love and loyalty, and respect.
Perky Green
He is just too good looking too handsome,WOW. Am still waiting not so patiently for our Zenny to foal Can’t stop PACING
maryp ny
Thanks to Nancy for asking and Cooper for answering a question that I have wondered about but never asked.
PrinceZ is looking good. Hope you will be like your momma and not be hard to handle when you’re a bigger boy.
I love you Zenyatta and hope you are feeling good and enjoying sunshine today.
Hugs and blessing to all Zsters.
Janie (in L.A.)
Speaking of geldings, it’s hard to believe this year marks 10 years since Funny Cide won the Kentucky Derby. Time flies! Anxiously awaiting word about Z13!
Marshall (NC broad)
Janie,
I cannot believe it has been 10 years! I was (still am) a big fan of Funny Cide — was so hoping that he would pull off the Triple. Loved the story of his connections, too. What a fun ride they had! Yay, Funny Cide!
Cheers
Janie (in L.A.)
I know! His back story was great – all the guys who own a little bit of him and had so much fun at those races… I should have mentioned that he won the Preakness too… What a cutie he was… and still is!
Jeanne Sutton
Thank you, Cooper!
Mary in Boone
Thank you for this excellent information, Cooper. I would have not thought to have asked this question, but am happy someone did.
Alys, our Prinz is so handsome!! As always, I could pick those ears out of any line-up. Wish I could be there to rub them. Someone else asked recently: does Z12 still make that dear sound when he runs?
Zenny, I am pacing in Boone. However, this morning it was more like slip sliding away given our snow and ice. Hope you and Z13 are feeling well. The godparents are out here waiting until the time is nigh.
I can not say thank you enough to Mr. & Mrs. Moss and Team Zenyatta and to Team Lane’s End for keeping us informed. I certainly appreciate the photos, videos, and information you share with us.
Take care, everyone,
Mary in Boone
Debbie
thank you, good to know;) Z12 looks so handsome! Excited for the arrival of Z13! LOVE YOU Z!!!
Diana Stuart - Pacing Pacing
Nancy from Tucson: Great question from a fellow Arizonan! And a very well done answer by Cooper – thank you!
Prince Z: You look so pensive in these lovely photos. Thinking about your future? Worry not little man, it is bright and shiney!
Zenny: Spring is here and the full moon approaches. Can your new baby be soon? (PLEASE?)
Auntie dia-pacing-stu in tempe
Sally
My cousin had a colt out of her TWH marethat was horrid to handle and his mother was just the sweetest horse you would ever find. The vet told her to wait until he was 6 months old and he would come out and geld him. One week after he turned 4 months he was impossible and had a meltdown…she called the vet and told him either he comes out and gelds him or she would find someone that would. He was there the next day and Pride became one of the nicest, sweetest riding horses there was. He developed fine and no one ended up getting hurt from his stupidity :-)
Barbara Wood (Texas)
Thank you, Nancy, for the great question and also Cooper for your thorough answer. Also have enjoyed the follow up discussions.
Speaking of geldings, there’s also the one-of-a-kind Lava Man. Just adore him. What a guy.
Jenny Ross
The great Man O War was very full of himself! Thank God they did not geld him!
Barbara Wood (Texas)
War Admiral thanks them too–lol!
Linda in NJ
Barbara, too funny!
EriNC
Or Dynaformer, he was another mean tempered one.
sue and tony
Cooper. Great answer. Thank You.
12Z you look as handsome as ever…we can’t wait to see what the future holds for you. And Zenny…relax and enjoy the day. It won’t be long before 13Z arrives.
suew/Va
“Prince”, you certainly have your mother’s good looks! Cooper, I’ve often wondered about gelding and your answer was perfect. Thank You.
Zenny, are you enjoying the day? I hope so. You are so loved by thousands! Now you have over 118,000 FB friends…how special is that?
Jan S. / Houston
Soooo Special….
Ann NC (PUR)
Thank you Cooper and Nancy. This has been wonderful,learning more and more.
Alys,thanks for the new photos of 12z. Cute how he zeros in on you w/ the camera and the others just go about.
12Z, your mane and forelock have really grown. I can’t believe how long and full they are. Wow, you are not our baby boy but our stunning yearling.
Zenny,being in foal, I bet you are enjoying the cooler weather. Love you and hang in there,you big beautiful mare! Saying my prayers for you.
Shannon in Cool, CA
Don’t think Prince Z will ever come close to being gelded. He has royal blood running through his veins. Pluse he’s so darn adorable and so much like his Mama.
Mary Margaret in Georgia
I had a chestnut TWH gelding that, also, even after being gelded was a handful. His mom was as sweet as could be and a wonderful show horse walking & racking. His daddy was Ebony’s Mountain Man. My gelding never paid attention in the show ring, very domineering. I always wondered if maybe he didn’t get gelded 100%. I loved him anyway with all his fiestiness. He is up at the Rainbow Bridge now. All of my other 2 & 4 legged loved ones. I’m glad they are all watching over me.
Rest up Zenyatta. You look fantastic as ever. May everyone have a Blessed Day.
Jan S. / Houston
Thanks Cooper. And thanks Nancy for the interesting question. 12Z is very alert and handsome as ever. Pacing beyond belief. ;-);-) Kiss, kiss to Mama Z. xoxo.
Debbie G/Kentucky
I always love it when I get on the blog and see a new post! I’m impatiently waiting for the post announcing the birth of Z13. Nancy and Cooper, thanks for the good question and answer. I’d always wondered why some colts were gelded and others weren’t. Z12 is getting so big, but he’s still just as cute as ever. I’m sure glad that horses don’t mind cold weather. Yesterday was the first day of spring and we had a little bit of snow here in Lexington today! I don’t think warm weather is ever going to get here. Thank God for my hot flashes! LOL. I love you, Zenny!
Barbara Wood (Texas)
Debbie–I keep Lexington on my personal weather.com page so I can check it every day, and today it was 28—brrr! I don’t think I could survive a winter there. Makes me recall the night they unloaded our dear Zenny from the plane, and she had all that huge crowd waiting. I’m wondering what she must have thought.
♥ Pacing Auntie Judy aka JAG / So. Calif. ♥
LOL I have Lexington on my cell phone forecast to check daily :-)
JAG
Diana Stuart - Pacing Pacing
Dear Barb: Zenny probably thought, “Mario, I don’t think we’re in Malibu any more.”
dia-giddy-stu in tempe
Haleem E Phillipps. Kingston, Jamaica.
Hi all u Zee fans, 6days an counting for Z13 to arrive, i do pray that the Queen will be ok and the filly she’s carrying will be as beautiful as Z12. be born strong and full of vitality. I wish all at Lanes End blessings abound.
EriNC
We do not know if Zenyatta is carrying a filly. No one does, not the Mosses or the vets.
Brenda S., Fort Erie, Canada
MAX – Thanks for the Mirror article, that must have been a really good bite to draw blood. Vic has been “nipped” a couple of times in recent weeks but no blood.
I also enjoyed the little side bar article about my team, Man.U. and the statement that their fans are spread out way beyond Old Trafford – I’ve been a fan since before the Munich disaster and the good old days of Bobby Charlton.